The first thing we have to accept is that there will always be those who will never be interested in meeting across the great divide.
The next thing…learn from the West Indies. We were thrown together, from all ethnic groups, and though it isn’t perfect…because, people are just people…we’ve managed to really live it up, marry, have friends from diverse backgrounds.
Clearly this is something the world needs now more than ever. But that also means I think it will be even more challenging. Honestly, I feel so battered and bewildered by all of the news I just want to hide away. I'm not, but that's what I want to do...
I feel you, Michael. I’ve been thinking about this project for the past few months because I saw most of what is happening coming, but now that it’s here, I find it challenging to find meaning. How do we keep democracies from collapsing? How to stop this ever-building technofeudal nightmare? People have answers, but sometimes, it feels useless. Sometimes, I feel like the best we can do is create and do whatever keeps our spirits alive instead of drowning in world focused on consumers and data instead of humans.
Interesting idea Nolan and great to try to find solutions to this issue - I am going to reflect and get back once I have thought about this.
My initial questions:
1. what is the value for me as the user? Its effort to cross the divide. I can already do the other activities and (not sure if I am your target user) but I have travelled a lot, met lots of different people. What will I get out of this that I don’t already have.
2. are you familiar with the ways climate activists target their messages/campaigns? They have tools to identify who is on the fence and their ideologies. I can try to find a good explainer link.
3. I have been on some awful retreats. One that comes to mind was a combo yoga/wine/culture experience that required me to spend 5 days with a bunch of people I clearly had nothing in common with. It felt very lonely and I had signed up as I had a lonely year and wanted to connect. They got drunk all the time and talked about corporate jobs. I told my stories about Myanmar and yoga retreats in bali to blank stares. It was awkward and while some of the culture stuff was interesting and the organisers passionate it didn’t work. Anyway, not saying this is exactly what you are offering - but sharing some insights into a space that was meant to bring people together around shared interests. In my experience you need effort to make this work (can share more from my facilitation and event background if useful).
4. Do you read that guardian column across the divide?
Thank you for all this information. I’m not going to respond to the questions in detail yet because I have to give it some more thought, and I want to see how others react. You’ve given me a lot to think about. And no, I have not read that column, I think. Everything you’ve mentioned here seems very useful. I appreciate any links that I can look into :)
To be honest, I’m not much of a retreat person (I think). It’s just one of the ways I think I could add value and collaborate with many people. I’m excited about the heart of the idea, but I still feel unsure about the execution. Some software developer friends are interested in the app, but they pointed out that there would need to be a strong screening to ensure trolls don’t end up on the app just to hurt people.
Thank you so much for sharing ‘Dining Across the Divide.’ I checked out several articles. I think the most impactful aspect is that people with different sociopolitical views can almost always find common ground. However, as we can see in some articles, discussion and finding common ground isn't always enough. I’d like to take it a step further and help people work on a common goal based on their interests. Maybe that’s what I need to highlight in terms of ‘what value is there for the participant.’ The value is meeting people who can help you reach a particular goal (it can be as small as getting to the top of a mountain or as big as making a short movie together), and from there, we build bridges across divides. However, I am aware that although the idea sounds positive, the execution has many holes.
This is wonderfully ambitious, and I think you're onto something. But you might need to define "ideological differences," which I realize might defeat the whole point. But I gotta say, as an American watching his country currently collapse into a fascist plutocracy, literally the LAST thing in the world I want to do right now is sit down with anyone who might support any of this. Push these people off a cliff? Yes! Is there an app for that?
As a general note, I love ideological differences, and (as you know) I think ideological orthodoxy is a real problem on the left in America right now too. I'm a liberal! Illiberalism in general annoys me, but I've also always had a very pro-tolerance POV. I can tolerate illiberalism! But I can't tolerate fascism. Just sayin'.
I’ve been thinking about this as well. I don't expect this to build bridges across extreme ends of the ideological spectrum. To make hardcore people who embody division and hatred see reason would take a miracle. What I hope is that a project like this can keep moderates from swinging to extremes and help people respect differing opinions (to an extent). Should we try to build projects with people who differ in their stances on immigration, gender, religion, environment regulation, and so on? I think so. Should we try to work with people who want immigrants and transpeople to suffer inhumanely? People who deny all science? I don’t expect so.
The first thing we have to accept is that there will always be those who will never be interested in meeting across the great divide.
The next thing…learn from the West Indies. We were thrown together, from all ethnic groups, and though it isn’t perfect…because, people are just people…we’ve managed to really live it up, marry, have friends from diverse backgrounds.
Clearly this is something the world needs now more than ever. But that also means I think it will be even more challenging. Honestly, I feel so battered and bewildered by all of the news I just want to hide away. I'm not, but that's what I want to do...
I feel you, Michael. I’ve been thinking about this project for the past few months because I saw most of what is happening coming, but now that it’s here, I find it challenging to find meaning. How do we keep democracies from collapsing? How to stop this ever-building technofeudal nightmare? People have answers, but sometimes, it feels useless. Sometimes, I feel like the best we can do is create and do whatever keeps our spirits alive instead of drowning in world focused on consumers and data instead of humans.
I think you are right and love what you are doing.
Interesting idea Nolan and great to try to find solutions to this issue - I am going to reflect and get back once I have thought about this.
My initial questions:
1. what is the value for me as the user? Its effort to cross the divide. I can already do the other activities and (not sure if I am your target user) but I have travelled a lot, met lots of different people. What will I get out of this that I don’t already have.
2. are you familiar with the ways climate activists target their messages/campaigns? They have tools to identify who is on the fence and their ideologies. I can try to find a good explainer link.
3. I have been on some awful retreats. One that comes to mind was a combo yoga/wine/culture experience that required me to spend 5 days with a bunch of people I clearly had nothing in common with. It felt very lonely and I had signed up as I had a lonely year and wanted to connect. They got drunk all the time and talked about corporate jobs. I told my stories about Myanmar and yoga retreats in bali to blank stares. It was awkward and while some of the culture stuff was interesting and the organisers passionate it didn’t work. Anyway, not saying this is exactly what you are offering - but sharing some insights into a space that was meant to bring people together around shared interests. In my experience you need effort to make this work (can share more from my facilitation and event background if useful).
4. Do you read that guardian column across the divide?
Thank you for all this information. I’m not going to respond to the questions in detail yet because I have to give it some more thought, and I want to see how others react. You’ve given me a lot to think about. And no, I have not read that column, I think. Everything you’ve mentioned here seems very useful. I appreciate any links that I can look into :)
To be honest, I’m not much of a retreat person (I think). It’s just one of the ways I think I could add value and collaborate with many people. I’m excited about the heart of the idea, but I still feel unsure about the execution. Some software developer friends are interested in the app, but they pointed out that there would need to be a strong screening to ensure trolls don’t end up on the app just to hurt people.
Hi Nolan, yes have a think and happy to discuss further.
Here is the Guardian link: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/series/dining-across-the-divide
And this explains the groups I have seen come up in climate-influencing discussions - with a broader remit:
https://nobl.io/changemaker/types-people-meet-implementing-change/
Thank you so much for sharing ‘Dining Across the Divide.’ I checked out several articles. I think the most impactful aspect is that people with different sociopolitical views can almost always find common ground. However, as we can see in some articles, discussion and finding common ground isn't always enough. I’d like to take it a step further and help people work on a common goal based on their interests. Maybe that’s what I need to highlight in terms of ‘what value is there for the participant.’ The value is meeting people who can help you reach a particular goal (it can be as small as getting to the top of a mountain or as big as making a short movie together), and from there, we build bridges across divides. However, I am aware that although the idea sounds positive, the execution has many holes.
Yes I like the idea of a shared goal. I think that can help to bridge divides. Glad you found the guardian piece helpful too.
This is wonderfully ambitious, and I think you're onto something. But you might need to define "ideological differences," which I realize might defeat the whole point. But I gotta say, as an American watching his country currently collapse into a fascist plutocracy, literally the LAST thing in the world I want to do right now is sit down with anyone who might support any of this. Push these people off a cliff? Yes! Is there an app for that?
As a general note, I love ideological differences, and (as you know) I think ideological orthodoxy is a real problem on the left in America right now too. I'm a liberal! Illiberalism in general annoys me, but I've also always had a very pro-tolerance POV. I can tolerate illiberalism! But I can't tolerate fascism. Just sayin'.
I’ve been thinking about this as well. I don't expect this to build bridges across extreme ends of the ideological spectrum. To make hardcore people who embody division and hatred see reason would take a miracle. What I hope is that a project like this can keep moderates from swinging to extremes and help people respect differing opinions (to an extent). Should we try to build projects with people who differ in their stances on immigration, gender, religion, environment regulation, and so on? I think so. Should we try to work with people who want immigrants and transpeople to suffer inhumanely? People who deny all science? I don’t expect so.
Unfortunately, very very extreme views now seem to represent half of America.