Don't think I can find a single thing I don't agree with here. We need to all get together and create a new "perfect" society. I think we should call it Yumatopia!
I’m an older American and I miss the spontaneity of getting together with friends that I enjoyed when I was younger. I’m as frustrated with having to schedule time with people as it seems that you all are! It wasn’t always this way in the US.
Which cultures do you make friends in most easily?
Maybe the question is also about subcultures. As someone who is into adventure sports, I find those people to be similar across countries. They’re usually open and not defined by the mainstream qualities of their country.
Yeah it could be about subcultures. We maoe friends EVERYWHERE outside of America -- but i think there's more about our expat subculture (and the locala very into that).
I enjoyed this, Nolan. Since one becomes forever expat automatically after a certain length of time, I probably, certainly have an expat perspective on North America, because when living somewhere else, North America was always over there.
Great discussion! A lot of this resonated with me, but some of it from an opposite perspective. What the Cool Beans said about their experience with friendship in Chicago felt similar to what I sometimes felt when I moved to Norway and Denmark. Maybe it’s us immigrants trying to integrate into a new culture who are sensitive towards perceived differences?
That’s a good, point. As I mentioned, making close friends in Castellon has been difficult. Yet, while traveling around Spain, it usually doesn't take more than a minute to get a number or be invited out for a drink. Many people say that’s different in northern European countries.
Sometimes combining brings the worst of all worlds though…I don’t know how you feel about Belgium but for me, staying there a couple months and visiting my Belgian family was so difficult. Mediterranean inefficiency plus northern cold personalities and cold weather was depressing. At least when we moved on to the Netherlands people felt more relaxed to me.
I’ve often felt South Tirol could be perfect, combining Italy and Austria, but when you get there it’s like two parallel societies with completely different standards.
That’s a good point. What works in one culture might not work in another.
There’s a much better food culture in Belgium than the Netherlands—aside from
The Indonesian food. And I’m not just saying that cause I am from Belgium (I only lived there a few years, though). It’s just a fact that Belgian food is better, haha.
I couldn’t live in Belgium, though. Too grey. I need mountains and fresh air.
I really enjoy the bike culture and directness in the Netherlands.
love this collab and conversations! a big question I have is why friendship in the States feels so different, or inorganic? what part is missing when it comes to forming deep social connections and relationships that people in the US can learn from Europeans?
This is very interesting to me. I don’t know about the Protestant workaholic thing, but I do know that Americans tend to be very private. For decades I have said that you can see this in their housing. It’s bad enough big houses that have big yards, but then you have houses where People drive into their garage that is attached to the house and you cannot even see the front door from the street.
For whatever reason, people in the states are very private. And I am very guilty of this. As a child, my mother would not even greet my friends if they came over. My siblings, and I still laugh that she knew only the name of one friend for each of us. We never had friends over to the house unless it was a planned party. So to this day, I am a planner. I am guilty of what you describe - when someone says let’s get together, I will offer a time on my calendar in the future.
The other side of that is being prepared for things. So last week when I knew friends would be coming and staying with my neighbor to celebrate his birthday, on Wednesday I asked what I could buy for the celebrations. And the response was don’t worry, we will talk about it on Saturday and figure it out . For me, having no vehicle at that point, it was very important that I need to be able to shop on Wednesday. But to even ask about this appeared to be rude. 🤷🏻♀️
My friend who owns a bar tells me that essentially I must be there every day at the same time. It is expected of me. It is expected, at least, if I want to develop friendships. This is so very different for me. And it is difficult when I do not have a vehicle but only a bike and the wind can be extremely strong on some days. On Thursday after a shower and preparations, I discovered the wind was 34 miles an hour and had to text my friend and say I would not be there. OK she said see you tomorrow. So yesterday, after I’m surprised that there are 19 of us at my neighbors for a lunch and preparations that lasted four hours (“we are having lunch”, is normal and all I was told, in America, we would absolutely tell you how many people are coming and who’s coming) and it was great fun, but I also felt obligated that I must still go to the bar. So without any rest, I jumped on my bike only to fight liberation day traffic and to arrive and discover the bar was packed as was the whole area. It had never occurred to me that it was a holiday, though of course I knew it was. But it didn’t occur to my friend to tell me in advance that Friday would not be a good day to visit at the bar.
I wouldn’t say I have been upset by these communications, but I have been honestly confused. This post is very helpful. If I am to truly fit in here, I must learn to overcome my inclination towards planning and privacy. Thank you. ☺️
Thank you Jan for your insights!! Definitely you are bringing up a lot of good points and always remind us not to "judge" someone from the book's cover. I wish it would be easier to be vulnerable with "strangers" more often :)
I should clarify that I live just outside of town here in Selinunte as I also do in America. So spontaneity is very difficult because I must always plan for transportation.
Oh my goodness, now I even understand the weird feeling I got from my friend who owns the bar when I did not call or text her on her one day off. Because I thought she would be exhausted by people and want time alone and quiet, as I would want. So yes, I think this is part of being protestant. We have smaller families, quieter surroundings. By my mid-twenties, I can no longer tolerate crowds. Even now as much as I truly enjoy people I need to brace myself for a party and I need plenty of time to recover after. And this is why my home and Selinunte is not in town. Funny, yes? Again, this was such an enlightening piece to read.
Thank you! I'm happy to see how it brought up so many of your memories and thoughts.
The correlation between spontaneity and need for a car is an interesting one. Well, the Dutch have no excuse. They have incredible infrastructure to just hop on a bike.
My life in BC was also pretty spontaneous, but I think that was also my friend group. I think there's a casual and spontaneous vibe with people into outdoor sports across cultures.
I suspect there is also some difference according to age. When we’re younger and especially if we are single, we are more likely to be spontaneous and make friends more quickly. Less obligations and more energy!
Don't think I can find a single thing I don't agree with here. We need to all get together and create a new "perfect" society. I think we should call it Yumatopia!
I’m glad to know you relate, too! But promise to keep me in check and put my in place if I call a perfect society “Yumatopia” 😅
This is so true haha! Let's work on that :)
supercool read, thank you! it so happenned it's my first read today(after some news) -I'll take it as a good sign
Obviously being from Meditterranean (among other things) I agree with a lot
I really want to insert a personal anecdote but scared it'll make my comment too long. Also, which personal anecdote to pick? lol
Thank you, dear contributors
Haha, please, insert the personal anecdote once you pick one.
:)
🤍✨🤍
I’m an older American and I miss the spontaneity of getting together with friends that I enjoyed when I was younger. I’m as frustrated with having to schedule time with people as it seems that you all are! It wasn’t always this way in the US.
Yeah, the friendship stuff really resonates. Well, all of it does.
Which cultures do you make friends in most easily?
Maybe the question is also about subcultures. As someone who is into adventure sports, I find those people to be similar across countries. They’re usually open and not defined by the mainstream qualities of their country.
Yeah it could be about subcultures. We maoe friends EVERYWHERE outside of America -- but i think there's more about our expat subculture (and the locala very into that).
What an interesting topic and post! Loved hearing the reactions and feelings from Cool Beans.
Thank you, Jeanine :)
I enjoyed this, Nolan. Since one becomes forever expat automatically after a certain length of time, I probably, certainly have an expat perspective on North America, because when living somewhere else, North America was always over there.
Great discussion! A lot of this resonated with me, but some of it from an opposite perspective. What the Cool Beans said about their experience with friendship in Chicago felt similar to what I sometimes felt when I moved to Norway and Denmark. Maybe it’s us immigrants trying to integrate into a new culture who are sensitive towards perceived differences?
That’s a good, point. As I mentioned, making close friends in Castellon has been difficult. Yet, while traveling around Spain, it usually doesn't take more than a minute to get a number or be invited out for a drink. Many people say that’s different in northern European countries.
Sometimes combining brings the worst of all worlds though…I don’t know how you feel about Belgium but for me, staying there a couple months and visiting my Belgian family was so difficult. Mediterranean inefficiency plus northern cold personalities and cold weather was depressing. At least when we moved on to the Netherlands people felt more relaxed to me.
I’ve often felt South Tirol could be perfect, combining Italy and Austria, but when you get there it’s like two parallel societies with completely different standards.
That’s a good point. What works in one culture might not work in another.
There’s a much better food culture in Belgium than the Netherlands—aside from
The Indonesian food. And I’m not just saying that cause I am from Belgium (I only lived there a few years, though). It’s just a fact that Belgian food is better, haha.
I couldn’t live in Belgium, though. Too grey. I need mountains and fresh air.
I really enjoy the bike culture and directness in the Netherlands.
love this collab and conversations! a big question I have is why friendship in the States feels so different, or inorganic? what part is missing when it comes to forming deep social connections and relationships that people in the US can learn from Europeans?
This is very interesting to me. I don’t know about the Protestant workaholic thing, but I do know that Americans tend to be very private. For decades I have said that you can see this in their housing. It’s bad enough big houses that have big yards, but then you have houses where People drive into their garage that is attached to the house and you cannot even see the front door from the street.
For whatever reason, people in the states are very private. And I am very guilty of this. As a child, my mother would not even greet my friends if they came over. My siblings, and I still laugh that she knew only the name of one friend for each of us. We never had friends over to the house unless it was a planned party. So to this day, I am a planner. I am guilty of what you describe - when someone says let’s get together, I will offer a time on my calendar in the future.
The other side of that is being prepared for things. So last week when I knew friends would be coming and staying with my neighbor to celebrate his birthday, on Wednesday I asked what I could buy for the celebrations. And the response was don’t worry, we will talk about it on Saturday and figure it out . For me, having no vehicle at that point, it was very important that I need to be able to shop on Wednesday. But to even ask about this appeared to be rude. 🤷🏻♀️
My friend who owns a bar tells me that essentially I must be there every day at the same time. It is expected of me. It is expected, at least, if I want to develop friendships. This is so very different for me. And it is difficult when I do not have a vehicle but only a bike and the wind can be extremely strong on some days. On Thursday after a shower and preparations, I discovered the wind was 34 miles an hour and had to text my friend and say I would not be there. OK she said see you tomorrow. So yesterday, after I’m surprised that there are 19 of us at my neighbors for a lunch and preparations that lasted four hours (“we are having lunch”, is normal and all I was told, in America, we would absolutely tell you how many people are coming and who’s coming) and it was great fun, but I also felt obligated that I must still go to the bar. So without any rest, I jumped on my bike only to fight liberation day traffic and to arrive and discover the bar was packed as was the whole area. It had never occurred to me that it was a holiday, though of course I knew it was. But it didn’t occur to my friend to tell me in advance that Friday would not be a good day to visit at the bar.
I wouldn’t say I have been upset by these communications, but I have been honestly confused. This post is very helpful. If I am to truly fit in here, I must learn to overcome my inclination towards planning and privacy. Thank you. ☺️
Thank you Jan for your insights!! Definitely you are bringing up a lot of good points and always remind us not to "judge" someone from the book's cover. I wish it would be easier to be vulnerable with "strangers" more often :)
I should clarify that I live just outside of town here in Selinunte as I also do in America. So spontaneity is very difficult because I must always plan for transportation.
Oh my goodness, now I even understand the weird feeling I got from my friend who owns the bar when I did not call or text her on her one day off. Because I thought she would be exhausted by people and want time alone and quiet, as I would want. So yes, I think this is part of being protestant. We have smaller families, quieter surroundings. By my mid-twenties, I can no longer tolerate crowds. Even now as much as I truly enjoy people I need to brace myself for a party and I need plenty of time to recover after. And this is why my home and Selinunte is not in town. Funny, yes? Again, this was such an enlightening piece to read.
Thank you! I'm happy to see how it brought up so many of your memories and thoughts.
The correlation between spontaneity and need for a car is an interesting one. Well, the Dutch have no excuse. They have incredible infrastructure to just hop on a bike.
My life in BC was also pretty spontaneous, but I think that was also my friend group. I think there's a casual and spontaneous vibe with people into outdoor sports across cultures.
I suspect there is also some difference according to age. When we’re younger and especially if we are single, we are more likely to be spontaneous and make friends more quickly. Less obligations and more energy!
I’m spontaneous with all my friends, unless they are North Americans, unless they are expats living in North America from somewhere else.
It’s funny how are minds make those kinds of automatic assumptions.